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  #1  
Old 21st March 2017, 02:06 AM
ocratato Offline
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Intel Optane SSD

The interesting thing about this SSD is that it is byte addressable and can be used as RAM.
https://arstechnica.com/information-...so-use-as-ram/

I suspect we are going to see some interesting developments in Linux and the way we use computers once this becomes commonly available.

There are some applications, such as artificial neural networks and semantic web databases that could become far more practical and useful with terrabytes of RAM.
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  #2  
Old 21st March 2017, 05:43 AM
Maryyy Offline
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Re: Intel Optane SSD

Hm, I remember The Machine from HP, at least that little I read about it before.
It was/is also using storage for both RAM and as a common file storage media, memristor based.
Using some heavily modified Linux kernel, IIRC called Linux ++ or similar.

I haven't read anything new about it, but maybe this kind of unified storage is slowly coming anyway.

Well, I would love some real innovation to happen, as current PC hardware is nothing but more cores and higher clocks. Utterly boring really. And overpriced.

It's natural. Human brain works the same way, it's both, temporary and long term storage as well.
By the morning, bunch of stuff is forgotten forever.
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  #3  
Old 21st March 2017, 09:30 AM
bobx001 Offline
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Re: Intel Optane SSD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocratato View Post
T
I suspect we are going to see some interesting developments in Linux and the way we use computers

Yep, an OS that takes 3 hours to load, and when you want to go look at the web with any browser, prepare to make yourself a coffee, while it "finishes opening a page".

That's the way it's all going at the moment, and I don't see Academia adressing that issue, which is the memory wasting lazy programming techniques they are "teaching". Lunacy !
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  #4  
Old 21st March 2017, 02:07 PM
ocratato Offline
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Re: Intel Optane SSD

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobx001 View Post
Yep, an OS that takes 3 hours to load, and when you want to go look at the web with any browser, prepare to make yourself a coffee, while it "finishes opening a page".

That's the way it's all going at the moment, and I don't see Academia addressing that issue, which is the memory wasting lazy programming techniques they are "teaching". Lunacy !
Actually, with this sort of system you probably won't reboot very often - mostly it will be something like suspend, but using non-volatile memory - so a very fast hibernate. The result is "instant on" for most users most of the time.

However, for web pages I think I agree. Also its going to get worse with web-assembly which will effectively mean the browser really does become another operating system. So much for open source - we will now be expected to run programs that we not only don't have the source for but we won't even have the executables installed and in a lot of cases the data will be in someone-else's control as well.

I am not in touch with what is being taught these days - can you be a bit more explicit as to what you consider to be memory wasting techniques ?
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Has anyone seriously considered that it might be turtles all the way down?
That's very old fashioned thinking.
The current model is that it's holographic nested virtualities of turtles, all the way down.
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  #5  
Old 21st March 2017, 02:35 PM
bobx001 Offline
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Re: Intel Optane SSD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocratato View Post
can you be a bit more explicit as to what you consider to be memory wasting techniques ?

While (1) { new(); }

I have seen such lunacy !

I never reboot my comps either, but that after a day's work the fact that firefox is using all 8gb of ram, plus another 3gb of swap is just plain silly. After 30 mins all youtube vids come up in freezeframe, need to restart the browser.,,,,,,

And *all* programming is moving in that direction.

You go buy a 200,000 $ program from SAP, runs slowwwww as hell, their answer : get more ram !

all BS my friend, instead of stuff getting better and more efficient, it's moving in the opposite direction, on a planetary scale !
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  #6  
Old 21st March 2017, 03:33 PM
antikythera Offline
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Re: Intel Optane SSD

I agree with the sentiment about some developers not optimising resource usage any more. I typically don't leave my machines running overnight but that's more from a safety stand point than anything. We don't leave any electrical goods running or charging overnight in our house apart from the essential white goods.

I know you are talking metaphorically here bob but if any operating system feels like it is taking 3 hours to start up from cold, then there are more pressing issues to resolve with the machine itself than some apparently bloated coding by the developers. even my old notebook with a 1.6Ghz Athlon XP-M 3000+ single core processor, 1280MB DDR333 RAM and a PATA 5400rpm HDD would boot fedora 23 in around 30 seconds.
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Old 21st March 2017, 04:58 PM
bobx001 Offline
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Re: Intel Optane SSD

Quote:
Originally Posted by antikythera View Post
I agree with the sentiment about some developers not optimising resource usage any more. I typically don't leave my machines running overnight but that's more from a safety stand point than anything. We don't leave any electrical goods running or charging overnight in our house apart from the essential white goods.

I know you are talking metaphorically here bob but if any operating system feels like it is taking 3 hours to start up from cold, then there are more pressing issues to resolve with the machine itself than some apparently bloated coding by the developers. even my old notebook with a 1.6Ghz Athlon XP-M 3000+ single core processor, 1280MB DDR333 RAM and a PATA 5400rpm HDD would boot fedora 23 in around 30 seconds.
lol. I am not talking about Fedora here (I love Fedora), but the new SSD that can be used as RAM, which would probably usher in a new generation of programmers allocating a Terabyte to write "Hello World".
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  #8  
Old 22nd March 2017, 12:59 AM
ocratato Offline
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Re: Intel Optane SSD

I suspect there are several issues that cause software to become bloated.

Poor choice of data structures and algorithms is a likely factor, and something that can be taught about.

Languages that use garbage collection. It is all too easy with such languages to end up keeping everything. I suspect this is happening with javascript and a lot of web pages.

Programs that drag in unnecessary libraries. I once tried to use Gnome's library for configuration for a simple program. It would not build without linking in ALL of Gnome's libraries.

A lot of libraries are general purpose and thus include a lot of stuff that will never be used in any given program. Careful subdivision of the library can help, such as what Qt has done.

Event driven programs (such as most modern GUIs) can also end up being significantly larger than simple sequential programs. This is in part due to all the things a user expects a GUI to do, and partly because each event has to determine what the state of the program is.
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Has anyone seriously considered that it might be turtles all the way down?
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The current model is that it's holographic nested virtualities of turtles, all the way down.
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